Saturday, 19 July 2008

Good reasons to fear planting of DNA Evidence - Malaysiakini

R.Sivarasa, the lawyer of Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, issued a press statement yesterday which, among others, explained why the PKR de facto leader refused to allow his blood to be taken for a DNA profiling during a medical check-up at the Kuala Lumpur hospital Wednesday while under detention. Anwar has expressed the fear about the possibility of his DNA sample being fabricated and manipulated. Sivarasa quoted the 1998 episode. His statement was carried by Malaysiakini.

Here’s excerpt of the Statement:

In 1998-1999 trials, Anwar experienced the phenomenon of fabrication of DNA evidence. We had SAC Rodwan illegally removing DNA samples from forensic custody. In cross-examination of the prosecution’s witnesses it was exposed that DNA taken from blood samples was planted on the infamous mattress.

When confronted with this fact the prosecution amended its charge and persuaded the judge, Augustine Paul (now Federal Court judge), to expunge the entire DNA evidence from the record, preventing Anwar Ibrahim’s lawyers from responding.

The persons who were implicated in the fabrication of evidence during Anwar’s 1998-1999 trials, namely (attorney-general) Gani Patail, (police chief) Musa Hassan, and Rodwan (Mohd Yusof) are the same players who are involved in the current case. Today they are in much more powerful positions within the law enforcement apparatus.

Anwar has even more reason to believe of the probability that DNA evidence will be fabricated once again. This is reasonable because the complainant remains in police custody since June 28,2008 and the police are also in possession of Anwar’s DNA from the earlier case.

Our client’s concerns are therefore not resolved, as Syed Hamid believes, by his handing over a DNA sample through his own doctor or through an international
forensic expert.

It would have to be independently verified first that all medical examinations and sample taking relating to the complainant were done professionally and without any interference from the police before Anwar will consider participating in any DNA analysis.

We also reiterate that there has yetto be any credible justification for resorting to DNA analyses when the policereport made by the complainant remains shrouded in secrecy and no evidence substantiating the allegations are made available

Full statement here


Lim said...

Me no doctor. But from wht I know, no need to get new DNA sample if you already have the DNA profile of a suspect in your database.

Why need a fresh DNA? I can understand DSAI's fear - fear of the sample being manipulated.

One cant dismiss that possibility.

Why said...

PM said 'DNA is too old' is simply bull-shitting !

DNA Carmotograph is computer graphically recorded. Graph do not lie !

It is possible DNA taken from Saiful's Asshole did not match the DNA Carmotogragh taken from DSAI during the 1998- 1999 trial.

Legally, AG office should "N F A "
DSAI case by now. The sodomy case should be thrown out by now.

AG want the case to stick. So need new fresh DNA sample for fabrication purposes. Saiful's asshole'must be planted' to match the fresh DNA sample

A court order DNA sample taken without consent is inadmissible as evidence.

Syabas to all Peacemakers.

Anonymous said...

Manipulation and fabrication are possible. However, Anwar and his lawyer kept making unproven claim that fabrication had occurred in 1998.

I think he is trying to influence the general public to believe that the DNA result in 1998 was fabricated.

For layman like us, depending on our political inclination, we would either end up either:

(1) perceiving Anwar as a criminal who is willing to tell lie and give manipulative statements to cover up his crime. He is a sweet manipulative talker who potrays himself as being the victim of a conspiracy; obviously his repeated statement that the 1998 result was fabricated is to make people believe that he was not guilty in 1998 and not even guilty now.

(2) He has been framed previously and now. As a victim, he is trying to highlight the truth, the results in 1998 was fabricated and of course it would be possible now.

Both possibilities are likely, and I dont know which to beleive. I believe under these curcumstances, it would be better for Anwar to cooperate and stop being combative. If the result is against him, then, he could get both foreign and local forensic /legal to prove that there are significant possibility that the result could be fabricated; hence, the proof is questionable.

If the DNA evidence is against him, to prove his innocence to the muslim, he could then perform Muhabalah as prescribed.

yapchongyee said...

I find it very distressing to read so many comments that keep repeating itself on Anwar's DNA and all that stuff about the corrupt police and the Judiciary; yes I too agree that the police and the Judges of the Malaysian Courts just cannot be trusted, but nobody has even touched on PROOF OF THE EVIDENCE OF THE CORRUPTION OF POLICE AND JUDGES.

We have all been told that Anwar has given the police his ALIBI and that is enough for the police to begin their investigation and only if police in the course of their investigation find other incriminating eveidence that is not consistent with Anwar's Alibi can their ask for other explanation. This procedure has not been adhered to; therefore it is very timely and correct for the public to be suspecious of the intentions of the police. Anwar is right in not providing his DNA because he is not required to do so on grounds "SELF INCRIMINATION", no accused person can be compelled to self incriminate himself. That is the law and it must be adhered to.

The next point that I want to raise to evidence the evil intentions of the police and the judiciary is the fact that SAIFUL HAS CONFESSED TO SODOMY. He has said that he had committed sodomy with Anwar and that said SAIFUL IS A SELF CONFESSED SODOMITE. I am not saying that he did, what i am saying is that he confessed to sodomy and in his confession hs has confessed to being an accomplice to the offence. THIS THEREFORE PLACES THE BURDEN ON THE POLICE AND THE A-G TO instantly PROSECUTE SAIFUL for sodomy based on his confession.

The conviction of Saiful does not necessarily mean that Anwar had participated in the crime because there is no evidence that implicates Anwar; it is for that reason that the Police and the A-G's office wants to FRAME ANWAR WITH FRESH DNA. Everybody knows that DNA has been kept active for centuries, only our sleepy head PM does not know that. From my perspective I believe that Anwar's team ought to consider this approach because that is the law.

Anonymous said...

The images stored from tests done in 1998 would probably be still stored. However, the technique used then (i.e the markers) may not be the most accurate method. In other word, a match using previous technology may not be 100% accurate

Hence, i agree with Abdullah Badawi that new sample should be taken because those taken in 1998 was too old.

I disagree with the suggestion that the AG should NFA this case as accusation/polce report has been made against him and hence it should be investigated. What the police are doing now is to investigate whether the report is credible and whether there is enough evidence to press charge him.

I think when we talk about this case, we should also consider other cases where rape victim has made report against the perperators. In most cases, evidence are usually absent because of the following:
1. incidence is typically reported several days later and hence DNA evdence is not a reliable marker for absence or presence of rape. In the case of Saiful, I am not sure of the reliability of specimen taken from his rectum as the report was made one or two days after the said incidence?
2. physical injuries may not be presence. For example if the rapist is armed with knife/pistol etc and if physically stronger, then the victims may have submitted for fear.
3. Physical injuries may not be present if the the victims submitted because of emotional or psychological force. This may happen in situation like the preperator threatening to expose the victims secret, or an adult threatening a child that he/she would be scolded, or an influential person threatening his worker/staffs that he/she be fired/shamed/demoted.
4. Alibi - any criminal can pay or persuade someone to lie on his behalf. In the case of Anwar Ibrahim, it will not be difficut to get alibi, he has many supporters who strongly believe that Anwar has been framed and who would be willing to lie on his behalf.

YeeChinyou said...

The above comment says


I suppose if that is the situation, it would be fair to prosecute both Saiful and Anwar. It is inhuman to prosecute only Saiful, just because he is failed graduates while his partner is release, just because he hapen to be an advisor of an opposition party and ex deputy prime minister.

Bosan said...

Soon after he came out from hiding at the Turkish Embassy, Anwar make claim that he is afraid the AG and Police is trying to frame him.

It is not hard to figure out that these statements were made to give an impression to the public that the AG and police are after him, so that he could later make claim that whatever the subsequent police and AG findings are false and fabricated.

His motive is clear, and he know tries very hard to discredit whatever police findings.

Anonymous said...

Does anybody, I mean anybody have a solution or formula to determine that DSAI DNA sample was planted in Saiful arsehole??? I dont think so.

I am no lawyer but the burden to prove fabrication or conspiracy is very-very difficult. Unless there is a video showing that the same sample DSAI gave was stuff in Saiful arse before this shithead being examine.

Or unless the person who fabricated it admitted his act. But still admission alone in not easily admissible.

Therefore, rather than giving them the DNA and subject to fabrication, it is better not to give. PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE.

If for any reason DSAI have to submit his DNA, I suggest that he ensure the sample being monitored 24/7 by several video cameras beginning from the exraction of sample until the end of trial (If there is any trial) even if it is conducted by an `INDEPENDENT' party.

By the way, how come the real arse fuc**kers that admitted their sin today in HARIAN METRO not being charged???? Police dont get or get duit kopi for not charging them?

Anonymous said...

How sample can be fabricated??? Not that hard??

Firstly, they must have DSAI DNA profil. Logically they should had had it since 1998.

Secondly, they just need to plant any of DSAI physical sample TOGETHER with shithead sample at the scene of the crime. I.e DSAI hair, pubic hair, blood stain, semen, nail, skin and so on...

Thirdly, it is not a problem for Pandi Dikalangan Rakyat Malaysia to do the second part above as scene of crime is Out of Bound. Nobody have any prove such as video camera to prove that the evidents and sample being planted. They rule the crime scene..

Fourthly and my gut feeling said so that they have destroyed the DNA profile in 1998 in order to prevent any problem for their bad deed.

Fifthly, therefore they BLOODY REALLY NEED DSAI DNA in order to ensure the second part above can be proven....


momsaurus said...

Siapa yang malu bila PM kata "DNA yang ada sudah lama"? Seluruh rakyat Malaysia merasa malu. Bagi rakyat yang dah biasa dengan siri siasatan CSI, nampak sangat PM kita ni sungguh cetek ilmunya.

Kenapa perlu specimen DNA yang baru apabila polis sudah ada DNA profile Anwar. Pihak polis perlu jelaskan kenapa.

Anonymous said...

One more thin DSAI,

Get your children DNA profile using your own doctor as this could probably can be use in future.

I suspect Malaysia is at the infant stage of DNA profiling and most Malaysian do not know how DNA works.

They might just get your children sample and use it in court saying it is yours. But if you have the sample, you might prove they are lying.

Seng said...

If one to apply the theories that DNA could be fabricated, then can I say that we should all discredit all DNA evidence submitted during prosecution of any cases previously and in the future.

Apart from Anwar Ibrahim's claim that the police and AG are out to get him, I have no reason to believe that the police/AG would resort to fabrication of his result.

CSI said...

For those speaking without real knowledge of DNA forensic technology, DNA profile's of Anwar Ibrahim performed in 1998 is the profile based on the technology that was used at that point of time.

If the police is really keen to fabricate the result by contaminating Saiful's rectal swab with Anwar Ibrahims's DNA, then, they have all the mean to do so. Anwar's DNA could be extracted from many other sources, including his old DNA sample, his hair etc. Hence, I find it unnecessary for them to request for new sample if the intention was to fabricate result.

To fabricate result they could mixed Saiful's ejaculate (semen), Anwar's DNA and Saiful's rectal swab/specimen. They could them say that the specimen was taken from Saiful's rectal swab and make claim that the rectal swab is compatible Anwar's semen ejaculated into Saiful's rectum because (1) it contain dead sperms (2) the DNA profile indicated a mixture of Anwar and Saiful's DNA profile (3)it contain rectal epithelial cells.

The only way to proof that the result is fabricated is to isolate the sperms obtained from Saiful's rectum, wash them and extract the sperm's DNA. If the sperm is carefully washed; we could conclude the following based on the DNA profile:

(1) Only Saiful - then the sperms are unlikely to be Anwar
(2) Only Anwar - proof that the sperms is from Anwar, hence confirm sodomy
(3) Saiful + Anwar - inconclusive. It is either Saiful's DNA or Anwar's DNA that have contaminated the Sperms

However, I believe Anwar's DNA has been destroyed, not because of cover up, but rather because of backward DNA storage facility, poor expertise, inefficient lab staffs and non existing standard operating procedure for handling samples.

Anonymous said...

To Seng and to some of you commentators out there,
You must either be too young to understand what happened in the proceedings in 1999/2000 when the judge expunged the dna evidence or you just have diffficulties in comprehending what the issue is here today. It is not the fabrication, you cannot fabricate dna like you cant fabricate your thumbprint unless you peel your skin off, BUT it is what they do with the thumbprint when they get it. So, if you go back to what ASP Rodwan did in 1999, what makes you think they cant do it again to manipulate the dna here! Duh...

Anonymous said...

Dear Seng,

You must live in the real world. This is what scholar called HIGH POLITICS. They care less about the people or their people they perceived as threat. We would resolved to anything including fabricating and lying.

The other thing is the patrimonial attitude of the high ranking civil servants. They are the main apparatus of high politics. These people including IGP, AG, Chief of Defence Forces (CDF), CJ (At least the former), Chief Secratary and other heads are the linking person from their master and the instruments which is most of the civil servants.

You cannot deny that. I speak from my experience in the civil servant since 1989. They are just a bunch of assholes who care less about their charges but would lick the bottom of their masters, politicians.

I am not surprise if they are involved in this scam.

conscience said...

A poisonous snake can shed its skin but, it still remains a blooming snake. After what happened in the twisted similar case against Anwar in 1998, how can one have faith with this corrupted govt. I am not impressed so far with the police activities on DSAI. Perhaps, changing the govt is the only way, we will have a fair trial. (if the accused is charged by this mob)

darcwil said...

The person involved 10 years ago was Tun M. And it is now AAB. You all say Tun M character better than AAB. So you think AAB will do what Tun M did before, fabricate evidence and misuse his power to jail Anwar?

AAB and Anwar's relationship cannot be denied. Ask anyone who knows them both, how close Anwar and Azizah's family is close with AAB. And if it wasnt for AAB, Anwar would still be damned in jail now.

Seng said...

I am quite aware that DNA itself cannot be fabricated like thumbprint cannot be fabricated; having the opportunity to work with DNA fingerprinting technology about 10 years ago. Even kids now learn in school that DNA could not be fabricated.

What I want to highlight is why should I believe that the police wanted to frame Anwar? Why should I believe that they want to use Anwar's DNA to fabricate evidence, i.e by contaminating Saiful's rectal sample with Anwar's DNA?

While some of you are stuck in the shared paranoid delusion that the police and AG are after Anwar, I like to believe that it was Anwar who was hurling false accusation and fabricated information at the police and AG to cover himself up.

Not that I have great trust of most of the high ranking government officials as accurately pointed out by anonymous at 3.00 pm. We know that many police officers are corrupted and the overall quality of the police department's leave a lot to be desired.

However, guilty or not guilty of sodomy; I am no fan of Anwar. I did not see him as a capable prime minister. He is just as corrupt as the peoples he condemned for corruption. Apart from excellent oratory skills, excellent skills in convincing people, excellent manipulative skills and willingness to use whatever mean to achieve objective, I find him lacking in other quality crucial for a country leader.